Romans 3:21-31, response to Moo

i was brought up with this passage being the passage that was far beyond all others, this was considered classic paul and what Paul meant for the entire bible. But i disagree with the understanding that my Christian School gave me (which shall remain nameless), but it went along the lines of "Jesus is the golden ticket, just have faith in him and you get your get out of hell free care", sound familiar. This was the proof text for this understanding. You could try and argue a different understanding and they would always point to this text.

Summary of what Paul could have meant

v.21- Moo brings out some good points. This verse signals the dawn of a new age that has come throughthe righteousness of God being manifested. I would like to suggest that this manifestation is actually Jesus' faithful act of obedience to the Father. I would also like to suggest that the apart from the law, means that Jesus did not manifest his righteousness from the Law, but the Law points to him manifesting his righteousness in the but now of the new age. Because of this his salvation is universally available. Note here I am referring to the righteousness in this passage as Jesus' and not ours.

v.22a- Moo in this verse discusses the translation of pistis and he concludes that it sould remain translated as faith in Jesus, I disagree with him here. I think it should be translated as faithfulness of Jesus or faith of Jesus (not that I am an expert at Greek with my whole semester of it) his argument that it would be bad theology to translate it this way does not compel me to agree with him in the slightest. The passage has been talking about God's faithfulness to judge and his faithfulness to the covenant, why would it change now, its just too unlikely for my liking.

vv.22b-23- There is no distinction- i think is pretty self explanatory, everyone is on the same boat- both Jew and Gentile, I think that it would be near impossible to read this text and not come to that conclusion for that has been Paul's point so far, that we all come before God as equals. It is established here what has been said for 3 chapters that none are right before God because they sin and they fall short of the glory of God

v.24- In this verse the solution to the human predicament of have been declared fallen short of the glory of God is found. Our lack of faithfulness is addressed here, God has found a way to fulfill the covenant and it was through the faithfulness of his Son that he addressed our lack of faithfulness and canceled our debts as a free gift. I am not saying here that God imputed his own obedience here into us somehow. I am still yet to think this through and wonder how to carry this thought completely though. I have a question here which is this verse must be understood within covenantal terms but what exactly has Jesus done here, i am not sure.

v.25- in my esv translation here the work propiation is used, i am going to admit i know its something to do with redemption but i have got no idea, i am aware its translated differently over many translations. According to the dictionary on my computer it means to gain favour or to regain favour. From Moo's work I can gather that it an atonement work which needs to be understood within an OT sacrificial setting. I can't really grasp whats going on here, but i think whats happening is that Jesus' blood was spilt for ours. And we can receive this salvation by faith. This shows that God is faithful to his covenant, and why he is still faithful even though he is passing over our former sins even though he would have the right not to.

v.26- I kind of touched on this last verse and will say it again. The context of this verse shows the faithfulness of Jesus to the covenant, he is just to justify because those who have faith in Jesus co-operate with the grace of God and are given the status of righteousness

v.27- Paul here is probably referring to the Jews- who probably thought they had some special rights before God. However they have no right to boast, according to Paul because it is not a law of works but a law of faith.

v.28- The reason not to boast continues according to Moo which is that no merit before God can be gained through works because it is given through faith. This however cannot meant merit for salvation in this context, but whether or not Gentiles come to the covenant family as fully-equal individuals. If it were by works then maybe the Jews would have a reason to boast, but if it is by faith then they have no reason.

vv.29-30- Paul is establishing here again that the one God Yahweh is the God of all. God justifies both the Jews and the gentiles by the same means, another reason not to boast!

v.31- Paul here cannot be accused of being ant-nomian, as discussed later in Romans it is quite clear that thorugh faith in Jesus by walking in the Spirit, we do what the Law intended to do. Which is demonstrate who the people of God are by their works.

romans 2:1-16, response to Moo

Romans 2:1-16 is a text that challenges me, I find it a difficult one to read.

Main points of the passage:

v.1 The one who judges is without excuse when it comes to judgement, because they do the same things they accuse others of.

v.2 God is in the right to judge these people because they practice the very same thing

v.4 Jews cannot afford to presume on God's mercy on the position, this is not an excuse to not stop sinning but rather it should really lead them to repentance

v.5 God is eventually going to judge all people, just because he is patient now does not mean that the sinner will escape the judgement of God.

Question: If you can tell who a person who is going to be saved by the works they do, can you tell who is not going to be saved by the things they do. In other words if good works and walking by the Spirit characterise the Christian life, does sin and a hard heart characterise the unbeliever's life?

v.6 God will judge everyone fairly and without preference or favour

vv. 7-8 God will reward those who seek him and condemn and punish those who are selfish and self-seeking

Thought of John: is there a distinction that needs to be made here, between seeking good for ones self and seeking God and then doing good. Is one then justified by seeking God and not seeking good works?

vv. 9-10 Paul here shows two alternative realities punishment for the wicked and glory, honour and peace for those who do good. Paul twice makes the point here that everyone gets based on their works and not their heritage.

Thought of John: Is this the early stages of the comparison between Adam and Christ?

v.11 God judges without preference

v.12 Both the Jew and the Gentile shall be judged

v.13 it is important to note in this passage the context, Paul has just said those who seek after good will receive glory, honour and peace. I disagree with Moo here, he says p.148 that Jews would have thought that doing the Law or the intent to do the Law would lead to salvation. Those who seek Yahweh and are in covenant with him will have salvation. Moo does not seem to think of Judiasm as a religion of grace here. In particular I have a problem with the last part "Paul affirms the principle that doing the law can lead to salvation; but he denies (1) that anyone can so "do"the Law; and (2) that Jews can depend on thir covenant relatiosnhip to shield them from the consequences of this failure" (p.148) . Paul here does not mention here that no one keep the Law here, whilst this is true that no one can keep it, it feels like it misses the point of the passage. I think Paul is saying that possession of the Torah is not enough, but actually doing good is what is required of you, that is not to presume on the kindness of God's riches but rather the Torah would call for repentance.

v.14 This verse must be read in context of v.13, Paul has just established that having the Torah is no advantage to the Jew, here he is establishing that the Gentile is at no disadvantage because they do good works apart from the Torah. They in affect show they are doers of the Law without hearing the Law.

vv.15-16 Paul here is still showing that the Gentiles by nature prove that they have the Torah in some limited sense and that even their conscience bears witness to this fact. This leads to the inevitable conclusion that God is one day going to reveal the secrets of all men. Showing that Christ will judge not only those works done in public but also the thought, attitudes and heart of men

Moo here has done a reasonable job of interpreting this passage. It would have been good though if he tried to keep the in mind the larger picture whilst looking at the nuts and bolts of the passage. One thing I would like to explore myself, is what does it mean to be a doer of the Law? This phrase confuses me but i like it.

Romans 5:1-11 Part A

I thought since we have been doing assignments  on Romans 5:12-21 and 6:1-14, an interesting discussion would be what lead Paul to write what he did.  My question today is what is so significant in Romans 5:1-11 that Paul would write the passages we were engaging with. Obviousl y to properly engage in this discussion we have to consider the whole conversation of Romans, but we do not have the time nor the resources to create such a discussion today.

Note: this blog reflects my opinion of the text, not that of the commentators, Paul or God. Whilst i might sound like i know what i am saying i actually have no idea

Note 2: I have not used the word justification in this blog to mean the entire saving act of God as one piper might want to put it, my interest in justification is not how we get in but how we can know who is in which one mr wright (not darren) would be more inclined to use. 

Romans 5:1-11

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

 

For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation." (Romans 5:1-11, ESV) 

This passage is generally used in two halves the suffering half and the reconciliation half, often used to tell people why their suffering is worth it or why they need Jesus. However a closer reading of the text reveals that these two halves can be reconciled.

Where does this fit in Paul's letter?

The discussion of Romans up until this point has been about the faithfulness of God and how Jesus has fulfilled the covenant. It is Christ's faithfulness to the covenant that has led to the justification of God's people and this covenant was totally fulfilled with Christ's work at the cross. In Romans 4 Paul begins to expand on how justification is obtained and what that justification means.  He declares that faith in Christ is the new way that has replaced following the Torah. Through this Paul has actually declared that jusitification is available not just to the Jews but to everyone including the gentiles. He shows how this has been made possible and that is through faith in Jesus Christ. 

What is Paul saying?

In Romans 5:1-2 Paul is listing the benifits of justification, which are:

• Peace with God
  
• Grace on which we stand
  
• The hope of the glory of God
  

Then the passage takes an interesting twist in v3 Paul where he begins listing the benifits of suffering and saying why the Roman church should rejoice in their suffering.

One reason Paul may have done this is that it immediately follows the v2 where Paul rejoices in the hope of glory. So Paul lists then an unexpected reason to rejoice because the roman church has been jusitified which is suffering. He then takes some time to really explore why suffering can actually be benefitial. His reasons that they are benifitial are that suffering will produce endurance, character and hope. He goes onto to expand on what this hope will not disappoint, that God will not shame them for this hope. Paul then goes onto to say why this hope cannot disappoint which is that God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. Which links this text together, by saying that the Holy Spirit in the present age gives the people love over-flowing to  prove that the future glory is worth the hope put in it.  

What Paul could be saying here is that in this age it may not seem like your sufferings are worth it, but if you suffer it will further reveal the great glory to come in the new age and this great glory will not disappoint  you, it will all be worth it. Want proof God gave us the Holy Spirit who has poured God's love in to our hearts so that its over flowing. Nothing can stop you getting this future glory now!

But my question today is how does Paul go from talking about suffering to the theme of reconciliation. For some there would be considered a jump in logic here. My answer is short is that to narrow down the focus of v 1-6 to a theme of suffering is to identify the wrong theme. Perhaps the theme is justification and part of that theme is that when we suffer we know that we cannot be seperated from the love of christ. The problem as i can see it, is that we have come to this text with a question here that Paul is not answering or even attempting to answer. To quote Stephen, if we are getting the wrong answers then obviously we are asking the wrong questions.  Often this text has been eisegeted to answer why is there suffering if there if God is all good and all powerful.  

my next blog if it ever arrives will attempt to answer the question  that i started asking but i thought this is already to long, so i will spare you.  i have not even started answering the question i was asking in the beginning which is what paul does to you. maybe next time...

peace out fellow bloggers, john nes